The Irish Rotary Owners Club

CJ · Posted: Tue May 16, 2006 11:20 am Post subject: Apexi Power FC?

I seem to be posting a lot of newb questions on the forum recently, so bear with me Wink

The new FD is completely standard in that it has no exhaust or induction mods, however, I'm concerned about running it on 95 RON for any great lenght of time, should be concerned on this front? Eddy Doyles bro said it shouldn't be a big issue, however. My concern is that detonation over time will damage the engine. I know that the Apexi Power FC is an option but it seems overkill on the basis that I have no mods planned. Andy, you mentioned that Martin @ Westward mapped yours, would you recommend him? Comments appreciated....

CJ

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The Irish Rotary Owners Club | The Irish FTO Owners Club

2qk4u · Posted: Tue May 16, 2006 11:46 am Post subject:

The Apexi PFC is a good move regardless of your future plans.You will notice an improvement in overall performance.It will simply allow the car run better from standard and also allows you the option to go for bigger power mods safely in the future.
It will be one of the first things I buy when I get an FD.
Nengun will deliver one to your door for €575. - http://www.nengun.com/catalogue/product/1

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"RX-7 ownership is somewhere in between Obsessive Compulsive Disorder and Paranoid Skitzophrenia...

rotor_dude · Posted: Tue May 16, 2006 12:14 pm Post subject:

hello,

2 cents Smile

to be honest i wouldn't worry or think about detonation or petrol as the rotary engine runs on 91-98 with a stock car

without any bother except for the avgas which is leaded and will damage o2 sensor and only use for racing

unless your using cheap fuel but if you stick to known brand ie bp texaco etc you will be fine

you only need to worry bout about petrol when you start running high boost
and the only tuning to a standard car is sparkplugs and leads unless you have a new chip in your computer or aftermarket computer so i wouldnt even think about it Smile

when you put on a big turbo etc then go for aftermarket computer etc

standard you wont get a detonation problem unless you have really bad fuel or running high boost or there is a fault with the fuel/ignition problem

i think theres to much talk going around that isnt true about rotary engines and people getting brain washed

later

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if it aint a rotor it aint a motor Smile

Rotorworks Automotive
Ireland Rotary Engine Specialist
www.rotorworks.co.uk

Mr_13B · Joined: 07 Feb 2006 Posts: 919 Location: Meath

Its not the fact that u will get detonation etc but i got 50bhp from a power fc and better petrol consumption..

The power delivery was waaaaaaay smooter and she pulled a hell of alot better...

Worth the 600 yoyos IMO...

silver7 · Joined: 24 Apr 2006 Posts: 275

There seems to be a lot of misconception here..

The stock ECU on the FD has ignition timing mapped for 100RON fuel. There is a huge difference between the characteristics of 95RON versus 100RON. It is a fact that rotaries, especially forced induction, cannot withstand anything other than mild pre-ignition.

The stock ECU has logic to pull timing once it detects knock (detonation). This is after the event, and effectively too late. I have tested the stock ECU under these conditions, and timing sometimes is only pulled back a degree or two at most, sometimes not at all. Under these conditions you are playing with fire with a turbo rotary in terms of engine longevity. It's worth noting the stock ecu has logic built for safety in the event of bad quality fuel, but not extended use of inadequate rated fuel..

rotor_dude is correct in saying that a rotary will run on anything. They can also run extremely lean (compared to boingers), but you must also factor things like fuelling and ignition timing to suit your application. It's like saying a ported motor takes the same ammount of advance as stock ports..

The reality, with an aftermarket ECU like the PowerFC on the FD, is you are likely to see a small drop in power, if mapped correctly and safely for 95RON fuel, given your setup is stock. Anybody who tells you otherwise, or that you are fine out with the stock ECU on 95RON is talking sh!te!

The benefits of the PowerFC are it has excellent boost control for stock systems. You can up the boost, but you must make sure it is mapped properly and you can meet the fuel requirements. The downside of the PFC, other than the fact that it features no additional outputs, is that it does not retard ignition when knock is detected, it meerely alerts you to the fact. This is where getting the car properly tuned on the road becomes important.

Also the stock maps that ship with the PFC have more total advance, even over the stock ecu, and you will need fuelling mapped specific to your car or else you are seriously risking things. Just came away from dialling in a guys single turbo FD with the PFC installed last sunday.. they are a good ecu when it comes to bang for your buck.

CJ · Posted: Tue May 16, 2006 6:23 pm Post subject:

Some good (but slightly conflicting Wink

) points there guys.

Mr_13B · Joined: 07 Feb 2006 Posts: 919 Location: Meath

silver7 · Joined: 24 Apr 2006 Posts: 275

CJ · Posted: Wed May 24, 2006 2:48 pm Post subject:

Good articles on the PFC, worth a look:

http://www.clubrx.org/media/pfc/PowerFC_FAQ.pdf

http://members.dodo.com.au/paul/docs/powerfc-faq/powerfc-faq.htm

CJ

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The Irish Rotary Owners Club | The Irish FTO Owners Club

silver7 · Joined: 24 Apr 2006 Posts: 275

I'm working on software for the PFC at the moment. Figured I'd mention it here for you guys to check out..

http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=533202

Basically a fancy replacement for the Commander unit, however it's designed specifically for data logging / tuning purposes.

Mr_13B · Joined: 07 Feb 2006 Posts: 919 Location: Meath

CJ · Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 12:09 pm Post subject:

Guest · Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 4:10 pm Post subject:

jw · Joined: 05 Jul 2006 Posts: 26 Location: N.I

silver7; Yeah that updated software wud be useful for cars in all states of tune alrite. Is two stage ignition cut meaning launch control?

I hear all sorts of reports about the PFC, good and bad! Most of bad reports coming from piston guys. A well known evo tuner told me he wouldn't dream of using it on any car! But on the other hand Pip over at WGT reakons its value for money and hes fitted them on sum of the fastest 7's in the uk.

Although wud i be right in sayin that the PFC only uses 20/20 load sites where as other makes like Motec uses 40/40. As yet i don't fully understand wat this means but i think 40/40 gives you finer tuning when mapping?
Does this mean that a rotary with a big turbo would run far better say off boost using a motec than a PFC??

silver7 · Joined: 24 Apr 2006 Posts: 275